Julian Tepper · 12 June 2000

Dear Group,

Re: “yet as a feminist critic, I find it troublesome and potentially repugnant to some readers,” I would be interested in learning how finding the poem repugnant grows out of one’s being as a feminist critic (actually, I am not sure what “feminist critic” means or, in this instance, how it differs from being just a feminist).

Further, I accept any repugnance that I may feel in regard to a work of art, such as a poem, as, on the one hand, something to treasure (having been caused to feel something), and on another, irrelevant to any question of the work’s legitimacy. That, for instance, Pictures at an Exhibition contains a section that is well-accepted as an expression of Mussorgsky’s anti-Semitism, makes the work no more or less than, musically, it is. I find Muzak (music that offends no one – except, of course, people who like music) repugnant but, so what?

Any given rape is what it is, and is certainly different, in essence, from its depiction or description, as is murder, assault, burglary and the like. Rape, as a subject, can, like any subject, be described or represented, artistically or otherwise. I hope that concepts such as “troublesome” or “repugnant” are not the result of the subject, itself, as opposed to, perhaps, a point of view taken by the poet, with which one, to be sure, may fairly disagree.

If someone says that, being a feminist critic, he finds a poem about rape troublesome, then I would expect and want to read an explanation of how he arrived at that finding – an explanation that includes the specific language in the poem and the specific aspect of his feminism that caused him to so react. Without that, I would find his comments (please forgive me) Maddening.

Julian Tepper

Sudha Shastri · 4 July 2000

I think there is a correction here.

If I am not mistaken, the twins, Helen and Clytemnestra were born to Leda when she was raped (sic) by Jove.

Dr.Sudha Shastri,
Dept. of Humanities and Social Sciences,
I.I.T.Bombay, Powai,
Mumbai 400 076, India.

Tel: (W, (HE Mail:

FireChild05 · 1 December 2002

Hi, Dr. Sudha Shastri. My name is Joycelin Jacobs-Schwartz, and I am 16 years old. I attend Arizona School for the Arts in the US, and am doing a report on the similarities and differences of Greek and Indian culture by comparing and contrasting Kali and Nemesis.

Yes, I know this was a long time ago, however in this text, you contradict the historical note by saying that Helen and Clytemnestra came from an egg which Leda boar as a result of being raped by Jove. Jove is Jupiter in Roman, and also Zeus in Greek times. In the historical note, it does say that Leda boar Helen by the rape of Zeus, and didn’t mention Clytemnestra, so in that aspect you were right. However, it is most commonly said that Clytemnestra and Castor are the offspring of Tyndareus. Now I do actually have a question for you. It has been said and then contradicted in many poems as to whether or not Nemesis and Leda are the same person. I understand that there are two versions of Nemesis: The Nymph-goddess who is said to be Leda, and the Philosophical Nemesis which is worshiped at Rhamnus. There are books that say there is one Nemesis who is not to be confused with Leda, and others that agree with that by saying Leda should not be confused with Nemesis. Do you have any ideas as to what is right or wrong? It is also said that Leda was a mortal. If she was a mortal, how was she able to change from fish to wild beast and finally as a goose where she was raped? I appreciate you taking time to read this, and hope that you will have a response for me. Thank you again.

Joycelin Jacobs-Schwartz
10th Grade, Arizona School for the Arts, US

Raja H R Bobbili · 18 September 2003

Hi Dr. Sudha Shastri,

My name is Raja Bobbili, from the International School of Lusaka, in Zambia.

I personally found this an excellent poem. Justification should be done to the vivid immediacy. It feels as if the rape is happening in front of your own eyes. What do you, or anyone else in this form, think has caused this vivid immediacy, and if so, what effect did Frost try and bring by taking the pains to have this vivid immediacy present. Has it got anything to do with the theme: pain.

Sincerely,

Raja Bobbili

jesse · 4 March 2004

I do not see this poem as representing the rape as a source of inspiration and poetry. No mention is made of Homer’s work at making the Trojan War an object of beauty, nor of Helen, the most immediate object of beauty to be born from this episode. Instead, Yeats emphasizes the destruction that the war would bring. It seems to me that one bad thing is leading to another…

-jesse mcbride

Brooke E · 1 July 2004

I do agree with a point you made. One bad thing does lead to another. Yeats is questioning the of the Greek civilization’s beginning. He saw Leda as the recipient of an annunciation that would found Greek civilization, just as the Annunciation to Mary would found Christianity. Yeat’s opinion spoken in the poem is in the third stanza: The “shudder in the loins” creates “the broken wall, the burning roof and tower and Agamemnon dead.” That all refers to the Trojan War. The poem is rather depressing as Leda is depicted as “helpless” to the “vague,” “dark” webs of Zeus. I’m sure that when outraged, irrational feminists were burning their bras in rebellion to society, they burned this poem right along with it. That, of course, doesn’t undignify its artistic mastery, though.

F117jet · 22 February 2005

I’m Kevin Irish, a 16-year old IB student. With respect to the whole “feminist critic” angle, I’d like to point out an entirely different viewpoint: instead of the poem being about rape of the feminine by a masculine aggressor (“glorify the power and sensuality of the rapist”, “accede to the (male) belief that ‘women love a bit of force’”), perhaps we should keep in mind that Zeus is, after all, a god, and that the poem is rather the doomed struggle of a woman against a god; a creature of power and majesty, who knows beforehand the devastation his rape and the birth of Helen would have on the world.

Flor Mechain · 19 September 2005

I don’t think Yeats is here trying to create a “beautiful poem”. He is more likely trying to create an awed poem. Greek civilization appears born from a rape and hence doomed to be violent and warlike. Yeats takes into account all the villainy of rape: force against someone who is put into a situation in which she cannot defend, pleasure in doing so (that’s how I read “the strange heart beating”) and indifference toward the victim (last line). But I cannot see where he is justifying it, so i think feminist critics can read it in a richer way than condemnation and fear. Flor

Jellybeanybop · 18 May 2006

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