Here Dead We Lie
Here dead we lie
Because we did not choose
To live and shame the land
From which we sprung.
Life, to be sure,
Is nothing much to lose,
But young men think it is,
And we were young.
Commentary
Continuing with Vikram Doctor’s guest theme:
The second is a well known one by A.E.Housman, but its not yet featured on minstrels. I guess its Flecker’s line “I was a poet, I was young” which makes me think about it, since it also deals with young mens’ dreams. It is in its low key way quite an extraordinary poem, for the punch it packs, simulatenously compassionate, commemorative, patriotic and yet with such sad and bitter knowledge at the end.
— Vikram
Martin adds
The second verse of this poem is one that has haunted me ever since I first read it. Housman’s ironic “Life to be sure is nothing much to lose” recalls Wilfred Owen’s quoting of “the old lie, ‘Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori’”, and to my mind, the quiet “but young men think it is, and we were young” is an even more effective depiction of the pity of war than Owen’s graphically detailed horrors. Housman’s narrator says, in effect “yes, we fought and we died, but know that we did so in full awareness of the price we were paying.”
— Martin
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From the Wondering Minstrels mailing list, 1999–2008.
Acynta · 16 April 2003
Re: Here Dead We Lie
Hating to be the one who mentions rhyme scheme, nevertheless, it’s quite cool as this poem’s is ABCD EBFD, which links the two stanzas quite beautifully and adds to the compactness and poignancy of the poem.
carlynn
Gene Skuratovsky · 24 April 2003
Re: Rhyming Scheme
Although the poem is shown here in two stanzas, four lines each, with the apparent rhyming scheme being ABCD EBFD, it is a fancy. One might add to this illusion a note of a clever 2-3-3-2 iambic rhythm per stanza.
In truth, this poem is written as a single quatrain in a favorite English iambic pentameter, perfectly rhyming ABAB. Just rewrite it properly, and you will see it!
Hope this is helpful.
Gene
sandi_ordinario · 24 April 2003
Thanks Martin, for the your interpretation. I will not argue about it but I think in Houseman’s time terms such as Angst, Weltzmer(?) and Nihilism was the fad so that my drift maybe the result of what I know. You have made it positive by claiming life has so much to lose from the point of view of the young. I see it differently. I feel that Housman expressing the frustration of the young for not making a dent in their world has resulted in the poem. A great poem, no matter.
My best,
sandi
Martin DeMello · 24 April 2003
I’d strongly disagree with this - I think Housman is being bitterly ironic in the second verse, pointing out that though the ‘Establishment’ keeps harping on about glorious death, the young know better; know that life is a lot to lose. The first verse says that they felt the price worth paying; the second adds that they paid it with their eyes wide open.
martin
Sarouche Razi · 3 November 2005
I had read this years ago, and somewhere along the line, in my head i changed the poem…and now the changes version strikes me even more…
Life, to be sure,
Is nothing much to lose,
But old men this it is,
and we were young
old men value life because they know theyre at the end of their own, its why old people fret…while the young are so carefree that they act as though theyre immortal…and the “and we were young” part takes on a different significance, because now he’s saying firstly, “we threw our lives away”, and secondly, “we never had the chance to think our lives WERE much to lose, we never had the chance to grow old, and experience the panics of old age”- it now strikes me as a better version
Martin Milco Jr · 30 September 2006
Like another Martin who commented on “Here dead we lie..”, this poem haunted me too the first time I read it, but I couldn’t fully express why. I used it as a prologue to one of my own poems. I was a combat infantryman in Vietnam (1968-69) and like all young men in wars before and since, I wanted to live. I wanted to experience a full life. I wanted to go home sitting in an airplane seat and not encased in a body bag. Now, I am an old man as is the narrator of this poem, and I wonder why life was so important to me then. In the tamer years that followed my war experience I have not been as intensely alive as in those years. I came to fully appreciate this poem only after I read Ambrose Bierce’s essay: “What I Saw at Shiloh”, Essay XII, the last line of which reads: “Ah, Youth, there is no such wizard as thou! Give me but one touch of thine artist hand upon the dull canvas of the Present; gild but for one moment the drear and somber scenes of today, and I will willingly surrender an other life than the one that I should have thrown away at Shiloh.” This may sound foolish to a young person. I would have to me, but then, life was important to young men, and I was young.
Martin Milco
Martin Milco Jr · 30 September 2006
As with another person’s comment regarding this poem, I too was haunted by it, but could not fully explain to myself why. I used it as a prologue to one of my own war poems. I was a combat infantryman in Vietnam [1968-69]. Like young soldiers then, before, and since, I wanted to live, to return home, to take a crack at having a full life. I was 25 then, I am nearly 63 now, therefore I qualify as an old man, just as the narrator of the poem. During the ensuing tamer years, I’ve often wondered why life seemed too important to lose back then. I am in no way suicidal or nihilistic. It is just in retrospect that I realize the intensity of living, of experiencing the enormity of life, coexisting with the very real prospect of sudden death in those harrowing days made me somehow, paradoxically, fully alive. The poem came full circle for me a few years ago after having read Ambrose Bierce’s essay, : What I Saw at Shiloh”, Essay XII. The last line reads: “Ah, Youth, there is no such wizard as thou! Give me but one touch of thine artist hand upon the dull canvas of the Present; gild but for one moment the drear and somber scenes of today, and I will willingly surrender an other life than the one that I should have thrown away at Shiloh.” For me, there is an unstated implication in Housman’s poem: that the wisdom of age says such an intensity for life which once existed under those horrifying circumstances cannot be recaptured and therefore “life is nothing much to lose, but, young men think it is and we were young.”
Rodger Hyde · 14 November 2007
Surely the word should be ‘sprang’? If so, this blemishes a poem of otherwise sombre beauty. Rodger hyde